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all right well good evening everyone i

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hope that you are having a blast at

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absycon this week

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thank you all for joining us on this

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wednesday evening

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my name is tahira allen and i will be

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one of your moderators tonight along

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with my fantastic colleague heather

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graham right here

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and i am a science communicator working

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as the new digital lead for nasa's

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astrobiology program and planetary

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science division

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so tonight we have an amazing panel on

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when worlds collide

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science and the arts where we will be

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discussing how art can drive our science

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and how science can drive the arts we

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will also be talking about how science

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can make its way onto a picture a play

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or even a stage

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so before we dive into panel

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introductions though i would kind of

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like to get a

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temperature of the room so

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by a show of hands who here has a

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okay very nice very nice

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so how many of you have ever used art to

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convey scientific topics

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oh wow okay many people that is okay

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great so who here got into the field of

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science or maybe got inspiration from

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science fiction

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okay very nice you all came to the right

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the right show

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and then finally who here is anybody

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interested in using art to convey

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science topics

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okay okay great great great so there can

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sometimes be a notion that science and

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art don't go together so one of our big

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goals tonight is to really draw a bridge

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between these two areas and to show that

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they can have a positive influence on

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each other

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so what you can expect tonight

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heather and i will kind of kick off the

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conversation with a few questions then

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we will open up the floor for any

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questions from our audience and then we

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will end the night with a musical

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performance by

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tim griffin here on the very end

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okay great

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so

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let's get started with the panel

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introductions heather do you want to

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kick us

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off hi i'm heather graham i'm a research

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scientist at nasa goddard space flight

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center and when i'm not doing that i am

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a theater artist

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i started out before i was even a

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scientist

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doing wigs and prosthetics and

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accessories for the stage it turns out

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that doesn't pay as well as you might

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think

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and i've also written a couple of plays

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one of them very notably i was working

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on in 2014 and got to talking with

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another writer who was working on a

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similar topic that person was margo lee

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shetterly

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and

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we talked about the topics that we were

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working on and i went on to write an

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opera about a nasa mathematician and she

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wrote a book on the same topic which is

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hidden figures she obviously did a lot

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but it was such an honor to to write

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that material and get to work with so

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many excellent theater artists on that

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and i'll pass this off to aaron gronstal

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who represents paige

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um hi i'm aaron gronstal i'm at the

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astrology program office and

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i've kind of lived a life in art and

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science i was uh my my mother's a visual

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artist i always grew up with the visual

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arts and drawing comic books a lot and

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painting and that sort of thing actually

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my first degree in theater and

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performance studies

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my first like actual paycheck was as an

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actor in australia

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and i wrote a piece that was a theater

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piece about um

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basically translating my anatomy notes

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into

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i needed to memorize for an exam so i

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wrote a play that went through all of my

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notes and

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and that got picked up by the

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international writers festival but

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but uh so so then i but i came back and

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went back into science and ended up

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at the astrobiology program office but

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have always continued my art and and

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i always found it as an outlet and

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when the 50th anniversary of

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astrobiology came up uh mary wojtek

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and linda billings who are also both at

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the astrobiology program office really

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wanted to kind of uh produce something

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that we could hand out at the 50th

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anniversary and and mary knew that i

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drew a lot of comic books and that sort

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of thing in my spare time and so decided

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to make use of that and we we produced

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one just kind of as as a handout at that

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one thing but the teachers got a hold of

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it and really loved it in the classroom

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and we had a lot of requests to keep

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going so we've

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kind of kept the series going and

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released some you know at eb's icon as

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it comes around and

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need ideas for the next one so for if

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those of you in the back if you move

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forward there's free copies just sitting

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on the some of the tables up here if you

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want to take some so

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if you want to move up closer

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i also have more afterwards so

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hi i'm julie galle bagginstas and i'm a

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flamenco dancer and i have

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become interested in using flamenco

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dance movement in general but since i

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love flamenco um this this art form in

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the schools um i use it in the schools

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as a teaching artist

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to

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teach lessons about things that don't

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really have anything to do with dance

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such as math and

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as well social studies i am based in

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atlanta

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but i work throughout the country i am

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performing and teaching and also

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producing work for

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my colleagues in the art form who are

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based here in the u.s and also

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visiting from spain so i'm really

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feeling like i'm in great company here

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with

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some

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fantastic artists and scientists and so

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um thank you for letting me join the

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thank you

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this mic doesn't seem to be working

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i'm larry niven

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i

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for 58 years

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and for that long i've been doing

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astrobiology without actually naming it

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uh

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the

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do do you need to know more than that

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about me

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uh i i am i live i live a dull life

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uh

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and

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howdy i'm tim griffin uh i am a stem

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educator from los angeles

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and i'm also a musician and i brought

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those two together by starting to write

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songs about 30 years ago for my students

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to help them learn about science and

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math and other subjects and eventually

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writing songs with them

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and the music for education grew into a

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second full-time job so i now run a

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small non-profit called griffin

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education where i lead a team of

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educators and musicians and scientists

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too and we make and give away songs that

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help kids learn about physics and

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biology and grammar and all kinds of fun

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stuff so i'm super excited to be here

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because i've already met a bunch of

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potential collaborators and they don't

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know but i'm going to be stalking them

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online until i get them to help me write

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some new songs about stuff that i don't

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know enough about to tell the stories

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okay great thank you all so much so erin

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i am going to pick on you since you

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mentioned these fantastic

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uh graphic novels so what made you desi

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decide to use your superpowers to you

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know go through go into science and

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science communication and in a way

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let's see i i kind of actually when i

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started at nasa it was kind of i was an

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undergrad and i was

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studying molecular environmental biology

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how long

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degree in theater and um

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i

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and

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that summer i was going to stay around

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in berkeley and

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randomly emailed a person on the website

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saying hey i'm you know studying

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microbiology but i'm also studying

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theater and writing and is there

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anything i can do this summer and

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they email me back and they're like sure

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like come down

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and do some writing for us they needed

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somebody to do some that had a knowledge

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of science to do some writing and

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yeah it kind of

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i had they just gave me a desk in a room

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and yeah i just kind of never left but i

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continued school while i was i was doing

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that with yes which was the astrobiology

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integration office at the at the time

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before it was

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a program at nasa headquarters and

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then for

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like kept on with science stayed with

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science at nasa and then

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came back around to the art when when uh

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mary kind of approached me about doing

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the the comics and linda billings had

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really had played a big role in that

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who's the editor um

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on that and who has

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done

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a lot of kind of academic study of comic

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art and that sort of thing so we kind of

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the secret history of aaron

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[Laughter]

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who i've known for ages and i just keep

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julia i wanted to ask you a question um

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so i'm curious about how you see the

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relationship between your craft dance

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your art and science and the disciplines

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that you've worked with

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especially mathematics

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what are the connections there i i can

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so there are there are the obvious um

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what i kind of call the obvious

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connections um between um

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between dance and music because we're

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moving to to rhythm there and math and

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that's infractions and so that's the

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easy one to go into a classroom and talk

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to

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students about by the way i work a lot

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with k through 12

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students i also work at the university

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level but the majority of my work as a

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teaching artist is with k-12 in in k-12

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classrooms so that's the environment

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that i'm thinking of um so that's the

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that's the the one that jumps out there

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um fractions there are some other

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connections um in terms of um moving

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bodies um to think about including um

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geometry

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and to help kids start to understand um

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the shapes in terms of related relating

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movement to shapes

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and then to ask them

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what do they see there to get them

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thinking on their terms instead of say

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the teachers terms

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there are some other

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other connections that i've learned to

283
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:21,839
use

284
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,480
including just some basic math skills of

285
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:26,560
of counting and addition and subtraction

286
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:29,839
at the very um the very

287
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:32,560
basic level for younger students um and

288
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:35,760
then as we get farther ahead with older

289
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,640
audiences or older classrooms

290
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:40,800
i like to try to challenge the students

291
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:43,040
to think a little bit more abstractly

292
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:45,200
and this is where my interest in the

293
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:48,160
ellipse comes in with the two foci and

294
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:50,880
its connection to flamenco for me

295
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:53,519
came about because i see our rhythms we

296
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:55,920
use what we call contra tiempos

297
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:57,760
so there's the bass beat and then

298
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:59,839
there's the the counter to that um the

299
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:01,519
eighth note for the musicians in the

300
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:05,040
room um the the standard of excellence

301
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:07,680
now is to work in the contra tiempo

302
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:10,639
rather than working on the beat um

303
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:13,279
and so in the ellipse in the

304
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:14,079
the

305
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:21,279
with elena del rio para who is here at

306
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,600
georgia state university um in world

307
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:26,160
languages um she introduced me to this

308
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,200
idea that that these these two foci um

309
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,839
in visual art um one will stand out and

310
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:33,600
one will recede and this is actually a

311
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,320
theory by severus ardui who's a cuban

312
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,720
poet um so you've got something standing

313
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:40,959
out in something receding and so for me

314
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:43,519
this is our contra tiempo in flamenco

315
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:44,480
and that

316
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:46,959
that we're trying to constantly um

317
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,519
emphasize the part of the beat that

318
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:51,839
doesn't really exist the anti-rhythm in

319
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:53,440
my opinion

320
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,120
and then we're not just trying to

321
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:57,519
emphasize it but then subdivide it and

322
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,200
so to get the students to think

323
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:01,519
abstractly in terms of something that

324
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,639
might

325
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:04,800
appear to stand out and something that

326
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:06,800
might recede is another way to get them

327
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,200
to start to um

328
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,040
to think about this ellipse and then so

329
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:12,959
many other things use that as a metaphor

330
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,680
for so many other things in life um in

331
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,600
all the places that we find in balance

332
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:19,360
and so this is where a connection comes

333
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:20,959
in

334
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,800
between mathematics and the work that i

335
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,160
do

336
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,240
staying in the lane of math and then

337
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,560
also getting outside of there

338
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,959
for some some abstract

339
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,279
thought and creativity

340
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:37,440
yeah wow thank you so much julie so now

341
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:40,399
we we see that through dance and so tim

342
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:41,600
i'm wondering

343
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,240
now with your craft what how you see a

344
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,880
connection between art and science and

345
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:48,560
conveying these topics through what you

346
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,360
do

347
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:51,519
yeah there's there are all kinds of ways

348
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,399
that one can help you to bridge the gaps

349
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:56,720
for the other uh you know thinking about

350
00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:59,519
flamenco dancing for for one example is

351
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:01,199
a great way to teach fundamental

352
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,279
concepts like temperature

353
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,199
because flamenco you're mostly

354
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:07,600
stationary and yet you're constantly

355
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:10,399
moving non-stop and as the music gets

356
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:12,480
faster that's that's temperature right

357
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,079
that's what heat really is there's an

358
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:16,240
atom and it may be more or less in the

359
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,839
same place but it's moving faster and

360
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:20,320
faster and then other kinds of dancing

361
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:23,040
you think about square dancing or uh

362
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:26,720
quadrils or regency dancing where

363
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,000
people are moving around and they're

364
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:30,160
never quite touching but there's a very

365
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:32,720
defined structure in terms of their

366
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:35,519
physical relationships to each other i

367
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,920
can think of no better way to teach how

368
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:39,760
molecules are assembled you know you

369
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,440
think about you know larry you've been

370
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,360
to regency dancing with me you

371
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,600
introduced me to it and you get a long

372
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,760
line of couples facing each other and

373
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,920
moving around and you know slowly

374
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:52,000
peeling off and then reassembling the

375
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,600
formation up at the top that's dna

376
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,680
so you know the arts are such a great

377
00:15:11,030 --> 00:14:59,519
way to teach the things that we can't

378
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:12,949
it's okay

379
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,639
so larry i want to ask you a question

380
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,079
which is um

381
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:19,920
larry and i had a chance to talk about

382
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,720
this and he knows that i am a big fan of

383
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:24,399
his books and

384
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:27,360
i was a huge fan of moting god's eye and

385
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:29,839
ring world and your books really helped

386
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,800
me think about you know imagining these

387
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:34,160
other places and now i'm an

388
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:36,800
astrobiologist and i get to study those

389
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,560
those kinds of

390
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:40,639
imaginary worlds that might

391
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:43,600
have life for a day job and i wanted to

392
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:46,720
know larry um did you ever work with

393
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,959
scientists as part of your creative

394
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:50,959
process were you

395
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:53,759
looking into the scientific literature

396
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:54,560
um

397
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:56,800
was that part of how you

398
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:58,800
you worked on world building did you

399
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:01,519
work with scientists on doing that too

400
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:04,000
in your creative process

401
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,800
it's a yes but then but not very much

402
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:10,240
do you know the name

403
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:12,160
robert forward

404
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,360
what was with hughes research

405
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:19,279
designing a uh

406
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:20,839
a gravity

407
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,480
detector

408
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:24,240
when uh

409
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:26,240
when jerry bornell wrote us and wrote a

410
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,030
beat him into print

411
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:38,470
forward called to jerry jerry called me

412
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:39,279
uh

413
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:40,079
we

414
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:46,560
and uh and i learned about quantum black

415
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,519
holes

416
00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:49,199
they were called then

417
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:51,759
now many black holes

418
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:52,800
uh

419
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:56,480
we jerry and i and some others persuaded

420
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,079
robert forward to write science fiction

421
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:02,240
so there's certainly a connection in

422
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:06,079
there also i sent jerry i sent

423
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:07,679
robert forward

424
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:08,400
uh

425
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:09,280
these

426
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,880
specs

427
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,959
the outline for

428
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:14,720
the integral trees

429
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,400
back when it was called

430
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:18,319
the uh

431
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:22,799
or something

432
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:25,439
i had to change it because robert looked

433
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:27,280
my specs over

434
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:30,559
told me i was not crazy

435
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:34,000
and uh and told me what the tides around

436
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:35,679
a neutron star

437
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:37,600
would do to the winds

438
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:41,520
around a like a flock of trees in a

439
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:44,320
in a gas taurus

440
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:45,760
held by the by

441
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:48,080
neutron star diets

442
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,039
yeah

443
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:51,280
that that that was a

444
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:57,990
that is and so larry actually i've got a

445
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:59,200
follow-up

446
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:00,480
what could you share a little bit about

447
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,230
could you share a little bit about what

448
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,799
your creative process looks like for

449
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:11,120
writing a novel

450
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,430
i've listed myself as a a dilettante i'm

451
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:21,120
not one of the uh

452
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:22,160
really

453
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:24,559
good writers who can write when they

454
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:26,880
don't feel like writing

455
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:30,000
uh i've gotten along with it along with

456
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,200
this

457
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,200
uh handicap

458
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:36,000
for uh 58 years

459
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,230
i i use a i use a computer

460
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,120
i've used a computer ever since uh the

461
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,919
middle of the integral trees so i'm

462
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,799
sorry

463
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:53,840
the uh

464
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:57,039
the ring world engineers jerry pornell

465
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:58,000
made me

466
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:00,320
get a computer back when that was a

467
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:02,480
whole new idea

468
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:08,390
he put his together

469
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:10,720
to fit the needs of a writer

470
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:13,760
with the help of a guy named tony peach

471
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:16,160
our computer man

472
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:18,720
and when he had here is perfect he made

473
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:20,080
me buy one

474
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,000
and i bought two

475
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,400
because my wife is a computer

476
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:26,320
uh honcho

477
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:27,679
and uh

478
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:30,320
and she needed one to play with

479
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:33,200
and it got me spare parts

480
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,710
thank you so much and so heather and uh

481
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:42,480
erin

482
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:42,910
when you're

483
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,240
[Music]

484
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:46,880
thinking about your science and needing

485
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:49,760
to convey it through artistic means does

486
00:20:01,440 --> 00:19:53,280
it force you to think about your science

487
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,510
[Laughter]

488
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:05,280
yeah that's an interesting question

489
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,720
because i think the easy answer would be

490
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:08,799
like oh yeah if i want to convey my

491
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:10,640
science through artistic things i have

492
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,559
to do oh i have to dumb it down or make

493
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:14,400
it easier and actually that's not true

494
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:15,679
at all because

495
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:17,840
um you have to con you have to figure

496
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:20,159
out how to encapsulate so much of your

497
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:23,440
knowledge into much more simple

498
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,840
not simple you have to compact it you

499
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:27,440
have to think about how you are going to

500
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,799
take all of that body of knowledge

501
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,720
that's inherent to you that's almost

502
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,880
almost instinctual because you've been

503
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,039
you know marinating in these scientific

504
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,200
topics for a decade and figure out how

505
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,559
to get that into a compact way that it's

506
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:42,960
it's convenient for

507
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,039
a novice who doesn't have those decades

508
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,840
to understand and that's actually hugely

509
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,280
challenging it's probably more

510
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:51,679
challenging to try to figure out how to

511
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:54,559
do that compacting process than to you

512
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:55,919
know leisurely

513
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,720
draw out over many pages of you know

514
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:00,880
materials and methods of your usual

515
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,600
scientific uh publication you know when

516
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,520
you're trying to do that so actually i

517
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,440
think it's a lot more challenging and i

518
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:09,120
think the other thing it really does is

519
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:11,919
it makes you think about

520
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:14,000
what is the core message here that i'm

521
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,159
trying to get across

522
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:17,600
and that's something that's

523
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,320
much more important in an artistic thing

524
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:22,880
um where you you want your audience you

525
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,880
want the people who are

526
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,840
you know

527
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:27,600
taking the time out of their day to to

528
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:29,679
listen to you or or view your piece you

529
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,480
want

530
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:32,240
to have an idea of what they're going to

531
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,640
leave with what is the important element

532
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:36,799
they leave with and you know when you're

533
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:38,559
writing a scientific paper that can be

534
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:41,520
many things and you have you know uh

535
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,679
pages to put that out there but you know

536
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,600
in art you really have to distill it

537
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,200
down and that's actually a really tough

538
00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:49,200
process so it's actually harder it's not

539
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:51,039
just you know cutting off the hard parts

540
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,360
and and simplifying

541
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:54,960
and i definitely agree with that

542
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:56,480
the distillation is

543
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:57,919
can be really difficult and like with

544
00:22:03,270 --> 00:21:58,640
the

545
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:03,280
what i love about it is that

546
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,640
you're kind of working in two languages

547
00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:06,240
at the same time

548
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,960
we think of comics as being sort of a

549
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:10,240
a modern

550
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:12,000
way of storytelling but it's really not

551
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,280
i mean comics are a form of visual

552
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:15,360
storytelling and visual storytelling is

553
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:18,880
a language that has been with us

554
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:21,520
for for so long and i think

555
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:23,400
yeah i mean i think it was at least in

556
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,039
2018

557
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,200
the oldest one was in like the oldest

558
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:28,960
cave paintings were found in indonesia

559
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:32,000
and it was they're 44 000 years old

560
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,360
and it depicts a hunting story and it's

561
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,200
we can still read them

562
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:39,120
you know like we today can still read

563
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:40,000
them and i think that visual

564
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:41,039
storytelling is something that's

565
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:42,559
ingrained in all of us

566
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,440
and

567
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:45,840
so the comic art is this beautiful way

568
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,799
of

569
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,559
speaking to a reader

570
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:50,320
in two languages at the same time one

571
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,840
that's visual one that is words and

572
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:53,440
there are people that connect with each

573
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:55,120
of those in different ways

574
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:56,799
and better some people are very visual

575
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:58,480
learners so it's it's

576
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:01,440
so fun to take a concept and be okay

577
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:03,280
i can talk about it here but then i'm

578
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:05,120
going to talk about it in this way in a

579
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:06,799
completely different language and they

580
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:08,159
can't you don't want them to say the

581
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:09,760
same thing like one of the golden kind

582
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,799
of rules of comics is you know you don't

583
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:14,159
you don't want to draw a picture of

584
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:16,400
batman punching the joker and then say

585
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:18,159
and then batman punch the joker in the

586
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,760
text like you shouldn't have to do that

587
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,840
if you if you have to do that then the

588
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:23,600
you've failed in the in the artwork like

589
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:25,280
the artwork should show that you know

590
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:26,320
and so

591
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,960
you can kind of in that one panel

592
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,200
convey a lot of information between the

593
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:34,000
words and the in the images in in unique

594
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,520
ways and

595
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:36,880
that's one of the really fun parts about

596
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:38,400
comics and it was really interesting

597
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,679
when we started

598
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:41,440
uh the series

599
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:42,320
which

600
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,120
contains real scientists and their real

601
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,880
work and it has academic references in

602
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:48,159
the back and

603
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:50,000
um the scientists that are in it you

604
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,159
know we send it a copy in advance so

605
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,760
they can see their likeness and approve

606
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:55,440
it and approve what they're saying

607
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:57,200
and when we first started you know i'd

608
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,799
kind of put together the script and and

609
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:00,480
do the draft drawings and stuff and send

610
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:02,080
it to the scientists and

611
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:03,200
there were a couple that you'd get back

612
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:04,480
and they're like oh no no i have to say

613
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:06,080
this and they send you three pages of

614
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:06,960
text

615
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:08,480
and it's like no that's

616
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:10,159
that's not how comments work i can't put

617
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:11,279
on you know

618
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:12,559
i'll give you i'll give you one extra

619
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,880
sentence

620
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:16,480
and so it's been this back and forth of

621
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,559
distilling that real core information

622
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:20,480
out of it and it's been

623
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,000
fun

624
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,840
as the series has gone along i think our

625
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:25,600
community and the people that have kind

626
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:26,320
of

627
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,760
familiarized themselves with the books

628
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:29,279
it's gotten easier like the scientists

629
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:30,640
are getting you know it's like they

630
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:31,360
think

631
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:32,720
it's

632
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:35,279
some scientists come up to me and say

633
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:36,480
like that actually really helped me kind

634
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:37,279
of

635
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:39,520
narrow this down and and and figure out

636
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:41,679
how i would tell this to us a classroom

637
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,440
of you know five-year-olds or you know

638
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:45,440
that kind of thing so that's it's been a

639
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:51,510
thank you thank you so much and so tim

640
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,440
do you have any tips for

641
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,360
some of our audience audience members

642
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:58,000
who are interested in you know conveying

643
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,760
their science through art but might not

644
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:01,840
really know where to start

645
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:04,720
yeah i'd say say the first thing is

646
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:08,480
it's it's never going to be as good as

647
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:10,720
you pictured it in your head or heard it

648
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:14,159
in your head or whatever and that's okay

649
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:16,320
uh i've been performing for fun and for

650
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:19,440
money since the 1980s and i've never had

651
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,960
a perfect show i've never written a

652
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:22,480
perfect song

653
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:24,159
so that that's the first thing you got

654
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:25,840
to remember

655
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,000
second is you got to figure out what is

656
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:30,480
the one thing you want people to take

657
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,520
away

658
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:32,880
you know if you're lucky they'll

659
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:39,510
really good job it'll be the right thing

660
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:41,919
the thing you wanted them to remember

661
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:44,240
most songs it's something frivolous like

662
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:45,760
wave your hands in the air like you just

663
00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:48,400
don't care and everything in the song

664
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:51,520
every word every beat has to lead into

665
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:54,720
supporting that one key idea

666
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:56,960
now if we're writing about science maybe

667
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:59,039
the idea is

668
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:00,960
all living things are made out of cells

669
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:03,840
you know that if that's the one big idea

670
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:06,400
then everything in the song has to lead

671
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:08,159
toward that and that's one of the nicest

672
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,200
you to structure your thinking around a

673
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:13,360
key idea because if you try to put all

674
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:16,159
the information into one picture or one

675
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:19,679
dance or one novel or one song

676
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:25,750
i think i always put one

677
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:27,520
at least one idea

678
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,470
thank you so i want to pause right here

679
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:36,559
and see if we have any questions from

680
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,559
the audience if anybody wants to come up

681
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:40,799
and ask a question feel free we've got

682
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:43,679
this microphone right here um

683
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,760
single file line maybe

684
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:47,120
that'll work

685
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:06,230
foreign

686
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:21,430
um

687
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:34,870
is

688
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:07,190
uh

689
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:10,159
i think drumming is a fantastic way to

690
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,360
teach math

691
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:14,320
because it's all about time you know and

692
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,120
so measuring things and dividing them up

693
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:19,679
into fractions and reassembling them in

694
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:22,720
way in new ways that are exciting using

695
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:25,200
the same parts uh to create something

696
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,120
new which again is a great you know

697
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:28,799
feedback into chemistry and and

698
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,320
molecules where we take things apart and

699
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,159
put them together in new ways

700
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:34,640
so you know anything with percussion

701
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:37,200
as far as choosing styles of music

702
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,039
though i love to hand that one back to

703
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:41,120
the students uh where if i'm with

704
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:42,960
elementary school kids and they're doing

705
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:44,720
the water cycle i give them an

706
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,200
assignment where i want for each stage

707
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,440
of the water cycle choose 20 seconds of

708
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:51,520
music from anywhere you can find it put

709
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,919
it together choreograph it

710
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,600
i want to see i want you to show me

711
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,440
without words that water molecules are

712
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,440
evaporating and then condensing and

713
00:29:04,789 --> 00:29:01,200
precipitating and running off or

714
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,149
all right thank you

715
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,320
i will agree that if we have to make a

716
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:10,159
choice let the kids make the choice as

717
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:11,840
long as it's something that um that the

718
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,480
teaching artists can handle there um

719
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,039
for me though um my my preference is

720
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,159
flamenco because i can see the many ways

721
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,399
to subdivide the beats and then get the

722
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:24,080
kids um

723
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:29,120
moving and in terms of movement um we

724
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:31,760
can have movement um

725
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:34,480
we we have this in in dance this idea

726
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:36,799
called the elements of dance and this is

727
00:29:42,789 --> 00:29:40,159
a a group of um labels and definitions

728
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:42,799
that we use to talk about movement

729
00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:45,360
objectively and um it might be something

730
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:48,799
as simple as um zigzag or straight

731
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:51,039
sharp or smooth and so we can use these

732
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:53,120
words to describe our movements and then

733
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,039
in addition to that um use the beats to

734
00:30:03,669 --> 00:29:59,760
create movement that has high energy or

735
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:03,679
low energy and so if we have a movement

736
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,039
that is low energy and takes many beats

737
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:09,360
of music then

738
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:11,039
we could potentially take the same

739
00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:14,320
movement and change the energy and

740
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:16,159
make it a faster

741
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:18,399
movement so to speak that takes fewer

742
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,039
beats and so then we start to see how

743
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,279
movement can take a long time or a

744
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:26,399
little bit of time and we can embody

745
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:31,120
this idea of counting and math and so

746
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:32,559
add in there for flamenco a little bit

747
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:35,520
of percussive hand clapping and stomping

748
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:37,600
and it really builds the excitement for

749
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:40,320
the students i believe um but but yeah i

750
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:42,799
mean this is this is how i see how how

751
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:45,520
movement can be used to explain math one

752
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:47,039
way um

753
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,159
and then um yeah and then as as if if

754
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:51,840
you like a certain kind of music let's

755
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:54,320
use that and let's talk about that first

756
00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:00,230
thank you all um for the weather from

757
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:02,320
harvard university um

758
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:05,120
i have a little question and uh one

759
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:07,200
request

760
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:09,760
so the question is um through the

761
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,519
enlightenment period 17th century 18 up

762
00:31:17,470 --> 00:31:15,679
to the 19th century

763
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:17,480
we have this uh

764
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:20,640
non-dissociation between art and science

765
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:23,760
so are any any utica naturalist from the

766
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:26,240
19th century or

767
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:29,840
a physicist or everybody where have some

768
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,159
some knowledge and some understanding

769
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,320
and connection between art and science

770
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:36,640
they didn't make the difference so from

771
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:39,360
your own perspective as artists writer

772
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:41,840
musicians how do you see that today i

773
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:44,960
know that since the 19th century century

774
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:46,480
sorry we tend to

775
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:50,159
uh specialize and dissociate the fields

776
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:52,000
and become more and more between

777
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:53,200
brackets

778
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:56,720
robotic and technical and virtual also

779
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,159
let's say in our own field but

780
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:02,000
do you see that this tendency will come

781
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,600
back of this

782
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:05,760
enlightenment kind of period that went

783
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:08,000
up to the 19 or not

784
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:10,559
and the request later request um first

785
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,159
for the

786
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:14,880
the great dancer here

787
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:18,399
i am an aficionado um and i i can get

788
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,880
the dwindly sometimes but i'm not a

789
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:22,080
narcissist

790
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:25,200
so um it reminds me the geometry thing

791
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:26,080
of

792
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:28,720
something unrelated to flamenco but from

793
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,679
arnet coleman uh when he when he used

794
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:33,200
the free jazz

795
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,440
as uh as a

796
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:37,360
as a way to

797
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,640
to build uh geometrical music and maybe

798
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:42,799
it could be also way to

799
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:46,399
to to to talk about geometry uh in in

800
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:49,120
music and my request is that

801
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:52,240
you have a a stage that can resonate and

802
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:55,679
i hope you have good shoes and if we can

803
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:58,000
put a little bit of buleria maybe you

804
00:33:03,430 --> 00:33:01,200
can show us few steps that will be great

805
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:03,440
to hear you i would love to

806
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:17,990
the

807
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,559
tradition tradition says that uh

808
00:33:23,909 --> 00:33:21,919
the arts

809
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:23,919
were uh

810
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,480
joining the arts and the sciences

811
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:28,559
was attempted by a man

812
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:31,519
who published a magazine called amazing

813
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:32,960
his name was

814
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,799
hugo gernsbach

815
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,320
and it was in the

816
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:37,679
when was that

817
00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:40,720
60s before my before my birth

818
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,919
uh

819
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:43,279
sorry

820
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:45,120
30s 20s

821
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:47,440
1920s 26 okay

822
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,640
20s

823
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:50,240
uh

824
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,120
that that this the stories weren't

825
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:54,640
always perfect

826
00:34:03,590 --> 00:33:56,799
they weren't always good

827
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:05,590
well just just i i

828
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,560
give one argument in favor of

829
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:10,320
integrating them i think is that

830
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,800
creativity is a muscle

831
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,280
uh if you if you do creative work it's

832
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,760
going to spread into everything you do i

833
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:19,520
think if you don't have creativity you

834
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:22,320
may be really good with your you may get

835
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:23,919
straight a's all the way through college

836
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,159
and grad school you may be a good lab

837
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:28,480
worker you may even be the director of

838
00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:29,760
the lab

839
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:31,040
but i think the people who make the

840
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,399
breakthroughs

841
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,399
are the ones who

842
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:37,200
exercise their creativity and or you

843
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,800
know and when they're out walking or

844
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,560
feeding the dog or standing in the

845
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:43,200
shower they're thinking about okay what

846
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:45,280
else uh there was a teacher i listened

847
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:47,280
to today from new zealand uh in a

848
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,800
lecture upstairs she was talking about

849
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,639
how in new zealand the teachers are

850
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,320
trained to think in terms of every

851
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:54,639
lesson needs to have a what

852
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:57,680
so what and what next

853
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,240
and i think the arts are are the br the

854
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:02,880
bridge between what and what next art

855
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:15,349
i guess like my the two cents i would

856
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,640
add is i mean i don't think i could ever

857
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:18,400
separate the two uh myself personally

858
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,599
that's why i did

859
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:21,760
a theater degree and a biology degree

860
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,119
and

861
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:26,160
like luckily that panned out all right

862
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:27,119
but

863
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:28,400
yeah i think i think and i think that

864
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:30,079
the reasons i was interested in art are

865
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:31,119
kind of the same reasons i was

866
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:32,880
interested in science it's the question

867
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:33,680
of

868
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,560
you know

869
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:36,160
what is this why are we here what are we

870
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,359
you know what are we doing that that

871
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,920
sort of those sort of questions and

872
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:41,280
and

873
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:52,720
to find answers or solve problems that

874
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:55,920
the creativity is is a it's a process

875
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:58,480
and when focusing on the process we get

876
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,280
to

877
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:01,760
the the breakthroughs as you mentioned

878
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,520
there and um and in in terms of putting

879
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:07,760
putting you know the arts and and

880
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,040
science and

881
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:12,320
back together um to to look at an

882
00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:14,640
artistic practice um

883
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:16,560
with the same lens that you look at the

884
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:19,200
scientific method um to put those two

885
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:20,960
back on the same track will help to

886
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:22,960
bring these back together i think it can

887
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:27,670
um

888
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,599
i'm an author and i write uh genre

889
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,800
fiction

890
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:34,480
and

891
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,280
my

892
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:37,359
primary motivation in writing is to

893
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,040
entertain like that's that's the first

894
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:43,200
thing that i want i want people to enjoy

895
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:46,320
the the writing and listening to

896
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:47,200
you

897
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:51,119
trying to

898
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:53,920
um educate primarily

899
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,160
first and foremost

900
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,920
is really interesting to me but it

901
00:37:02,950 --> 00:36:59,920
sounds to me

902
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:02,960
very restrictive very constrictive and i

903
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,760
wondered if you

904
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:07,280
if it feels that way to you if you're

905
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:09,599
like no i really want to just

906
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:11,200
go off and

907
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:13,680
and do like maybe take this core of an

908
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:16,720
idea but then write it completely

909
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:19,359
separate story that it isn't about this

910
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:20,240
thing

911
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:24,560
um or if having this core idea of

912
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:26,000
education

913
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:27,599
uh is

914
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,760
um if you don't feel it's constrictive

915
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:31,440
if you feel somehow freeing i'm

916
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:35,670
yeah

917
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:37,920
i was gonna uh

918
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:39,920
take a stab at that um while everyone

919
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:41,760
else falls um i think that's an

920
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:43,760
interesting idea and i will say that my

921
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,200
plays are 100 not educational

922
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:50,240
but there's always a message and um and

923
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:51,839
so i think this is an interesting thing

924
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:53,200
for us to

925
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:55,920
uh consider uh like what is that

926
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:57,760
fundamental difference what makes a

927
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,079
message somehow suddenly informational

928
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,480
or educational you know just learning

929
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,800
about the a world that someone else

930
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:06,000
lived in

931
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:07,119
um

932
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:10,160
can be either a message or educational

933
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:12,079
and i think it

934
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,520
that's interest that's a really

935
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:15,280
interesting idea that you're talking

936
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:17,680
about and i think it just has to do with

937
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:19,599
like what what was the thing you wanted

938
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:21,040
someone to take away do you want them to

939
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,680
be able to repeat some sort of process

940
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:25,599
or or understanding something about the

941
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:28,320
world or just be able to imagine the

942
00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:37,349
and i would also say um

943
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:39,440
i'd like there is that balance between

944
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:41,200
education and communication and i think

945
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:47,510
and sometimes maybe maybe if you're

946
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:48,640
doing it

947
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,079
in a traditional like for traditional

948
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:51,839
education like in the classroom and that

949
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:52,880
sort of thing

950
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:54,320
it's more about knowing your audience

951
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:55,760
and knowing how to communicate with them

952
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,640
and

953
00:39:00,870 --> 00:38:58,320
you could look at that as a constraint

954
00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:00,880
but also that's like sometimes

955
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:02,320
constraints

956
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,560
push you into into finding really cool

957
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:06,480
solutions you know and

958
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:08,480
push your creativity and and allow you

959
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,880
to kind of create even more so i i don't

960
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:13,200
see it as a constraint personally

961
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:14,400
and there is art that you create for

962
00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:15,599
yourself and

963
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,880
sometimes it's just good to scream into

964
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:18,400
the void and not care who's who's going

965
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:20,000
to hear it but you know

966
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:21,200
um

967
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,400
sometimes when you when you have a

968
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:24,240
message you want to communicate it's it

969
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:25,599
actually kind of

970
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,510
thank you thank you

971
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:37,200
hi thanks very much for convening the

972
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:38,720
panel my name is dan lapin with

973
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:42,560
enterogenesis designs and the

974
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,079
uh oh

975
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,160
am i still on yeah so the first thing

976
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,079
i'd like to ask is how could we get

977
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:50,079
three men who are both all flamenco

978
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:51,040
dancers

979
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,800
uh in a science conference

980
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,640
what's going on with this huh

981
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:57,200
harvard down here university of chicago

982
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:58,640
yeah and so i think that's really

983
00:40:01,109 --> 00:40:00,079
curious but i think part of it is the

984
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:01,119
point of

985
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,079
of the physicality of some arts brings

986
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:06,640
the quality of the biology of life force

987
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:08,240
and i think in an astrobiology

988
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:09,520
conference that's really really

989
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:10,960
important as we look at cellular

990
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:12,400
structures that have energy systems

991
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:14,720
themselves okay we're looking at primary

992
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,960
life force and you know i don't know how

993
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,800
long we've been trying for scientists to

994
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:20,720
put life in a box

995
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:22,800
but i think the arts and the humanities

996
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:25,839
for millennium have been you know how do

997
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:28,000
we all the way back to the gymnasiums of

998
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:30,400
greek greece you know how do we embody

999
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:32,800
with the fullness of our soma okay

1000
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:36,000
versus a trend in cognition okay and the

1001
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:38,000
central nervous system itself i think

1002
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:39,680
it's a really important point of how we

1003
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:41,520
look at the anatomy and physiology of

1004
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,079
our arts and our sciences with that and

1005
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:45,839
so my question both to the panel and

1006
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:47,839
also to the audience here

1007
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:49,920
is are people think you know so what are

1008
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:52,560
people doing within their labs

1009
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:55,280
to to bring artistic metaphors or

1010
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,839
artistic examples into daily practices

1011
00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:02,160
into how to make it physical so that we

1012
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:03,920
we integrate between our right and left

1013
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,000
hemisphere between our head and our

1014
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,160
bodies to bring forth that that

1015
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,640
fundamental internal inquiry process

1016
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:12,560
so i'm curious for the panel to comment

1017
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:14,000
but if anyone else has some ideas about

1018
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:15,920
that i'm actively working in that area

1019
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:23,829
i don't move

1020
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:25,760
i have a friend who practices her

1021
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:28,240
flamenco pastors in the lab while she

1022
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:30,960
does her slides

1023
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:32,240
i think i think we've learned that next

1024
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:33,760
step psycho i'm going to have a flamenco

1025
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:38,309
yes who knew

1026
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:49,510
anybody in the audience have any ideas

1027
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:57,589
abigail oops abigail johnson georgia

1028
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:00,560
tech you could put musical notes along

1029
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:07,190
okay how many how many people

1030
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:08,319
i was gonna have like how many people

1031
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,160
listen like if you work in a lab like

1032
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:11,760
have like listen to music while you're

1033
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,960
working

1034
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:15,119
i mean i always yeah

1035
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:17,280
and maybe i'm not quite consciously

1036
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:19,520
doing it but yeah for sure when i was i

1037
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:21,680
remember like working in an anaerobic

1038
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,880
chamber and having my hands and the

1039
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:24,400
gloves for like eight hours at a time

1040
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,119
and

1041
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:27,200
you have to you know your back would

1042
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:28,400
give out if you weren't moving around a

1043
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,680
bit and stuff but i don't think i ever

1044
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:31,680
kind of consciously thought about those

1045
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:32,880
kinds of the connections that you were

1046
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:34,240
talking about yeah i'm going to be

1047
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:41,829
just a little maybe a comment i

1048
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:44,880
i grew up my uh you know like kind of

1049
00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:46,800
arts environments

1050
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:47,680
uh

1051
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:50,480
many many ideas if you go just back to

1052
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:52,240
the

1053
00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:58,640
discussing concepts

1054
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:00,319
and those concepts if you take like for

1055
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,200
example just cubism by by itself and the

1056
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:05,040
conversation that you will have between

1057
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:08,319
picasso or modigliani etc these are

1058
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:11,359
really concepts that deals with geometry

1059
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:14,160
that's about perception about with so

1060
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:15,760
many different aspects that the

1061
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:17,839
scientists will take over and they can

1062
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,319
have a real conversation with physicists

1063
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:22,560
and with mathematicians and did it did

1064
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:24,800
happen in the past and it still happened

1065
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:26,960
and i think there is uh

1066
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:29,599
when i ask the question is is uh and

1067
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,240
it's related to yours it's we

1068
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:34,319
there is this connection it's just the

1069
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:38,079
tendency in your daily life job you are

1070
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,000
uh

1071
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:42,240
you have to be like have a kind of a

1072
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:46,800
speciality but in in in overall the arts

1073
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,079
is a principal component of of of

1074
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:52,160
science and it should be

1075
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,040
like that and we should teach more arts

1076
00:44:04,630 --> 00:43:58,000
within science uh for science

1077
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:06,870
i'd add to that petition to add musical

1078
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:14,470
my name is annelise meyer i'm from mit

1079
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:15,680
hui

1080
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,560
and

1081
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:18,720
we've heard a lot among the panelists

1082
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:21,040
about kind of how we can use these

1083
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:22,720
arts and music to

1084
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,200
reach across age demographics

1085
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,960
i'd be interested to hear more about

1086
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:29,040
either examples of what you have done or

1087
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:30,800
what you would hope to do to reach

1088
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:33,119
across race gender and sexuality

1089
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:34,240
dynamics

1090
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:35,920
demographics because i feel like arts

1091
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:38,800
probably has a huge

1092
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:41,119
opportunity to bring science to a range

1093
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:51,750
um uh i will

1094
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,160
try to approach that by saying um most

1095
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:56,880
of the plays that i've written have been

1096
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,960
performed and staged by

1097
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:00,800
america's oldest african-american

1098
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:03,599
theater arts group in baltimore uh the

1099
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:06,079
arena theater i'm so proud to be able to

1100
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:07,280
work with them

1101
00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:08,800
and um

1102
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:11,599
just top quality top quality people and

1103
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:14,000
and so i think that you know

1104
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:18,560
it was really great to be able to uh

1105
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:20,880
as a scientist and artist uh work in

1106
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,960
that community and i felt so honored and

1107
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:24,720
i don't know if that qualifies as an

1108
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:27,280
answer to your question but you know i

1109
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:28,400
think it's just something that you have

1110
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:30,800
to make part of your practice you know

1111
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:32,720
we can think about grand plans for these

1112
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:34,480
things or we can think about solutions

1113
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:38,000
that i as an artist or scientist can

1114
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:40,720
make part of my own practice to to build

1115
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:43,920
those bridges myself

1116
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,440
uh i i would argue to some degree

1117
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:49,680
the arts one of their strengths is they

1118
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:52,160
help us get into the heads of people

1119
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,359
outside our own experience

1120
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,800
and uh that's you know part of the

1121
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,640
appeal of science fiction for example or

1122
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:00,880
you know i think we we can

1123
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:03,040
look through other people's eyes we can

1124
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:06,640
experience their story to some degree

1125
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:08,319
but also

1126
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:11,359
as a storyteller and musician i want to

1127
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,240
be wary of cultural appropriation

1128
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,280
i i there there are certain lines where

1129
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:19,599
i want to be careful about crossing them

1130
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,240
and the answer there is collaboration

1131
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:24,480
so i make a point of reaching out to

1132
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,000
people whose life experience is

1133
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:28,720
different from my own and it are there

1134
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,520
ways we can work together or just

1135
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,440
invite them to submit their work and

1136
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,680
include it in the library that i run on

1137
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:37,119
my website because because the main

1138
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:39,280
thing i do through my non-profit is we

1139
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:42,240
have a library of teaching songs for

1140
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:43,760
mainly for kindergarten to eighth grade

1141
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:45,359
but also some high school and college

1142
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:47,440
stuff and we're trying to turn it into

1143
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:50,319
more than just the tim griffin show

1144
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,720
we need people of of every kind of

1145
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,040
experience to share their stories

1146
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,839
through music if we're gonna really be

1147
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:59,280
fully inclusive because there's there's

1148
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:01,520
some kinds of stories where i can't tell

1149
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:02,240
it

1150
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,640
probably wouldn't happen but even if i

1151
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,040
did it still would sound a little weird

1152
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,599
coming from a guy who is born into every

1153
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:13,920
kind of privilege to be singing about

1154
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:20,309
yeah

1155
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:22,160
i'd like to get this said

1156
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:23,440
the uh

1157
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:26,720
what what we storytellers do is we

1158
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,599
follow the sciences scientists around

1159
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:32,079
the scientists the mathematicians uh

1160
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:33,599
they're the leaders

1161
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:35,440
uh we look for the

1162
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,319
uh

1163
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:38,880
interesting things that that could could

1164
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:40,559
generate stories

1165
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:49,990
so um go with me here with the work in

1166
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:52,800
with the ellipse that i have done i've

1167
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:54,880
looked at these foci and i've looked at

1168
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,839
this rhythmic idea of contour tiempo and

1169
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,240
i've followed it into the african

1170
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:02,880
diaspora and kind of fallen into

1171
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,280
a group of people who

1172
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:07,920
research the roots of flamenco in the

1173
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:09,119
diaspora

1174
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:13,280
and in atlanta um well and

1175
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:15,599
through my research i found that there

1176
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:19,359
is a shared common um root if you will

1177
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:23,359
um between flamenco and a lot of the the

1178
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:26,240
rhythms and dances and musics of the

1179
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:27,440
diaspora

1180
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:28,240
and

1181
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:32,000
um

1182
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:33,680
my work with mathematics in motion here

1183
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:36,160
in atlanta included um

1184
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,480
an exploration between hip-hop and

1185
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:41,200
flamenco to find where we could discover

1186
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,240
um common points and differences um and

1187
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:47,040
then use that as a metaphor um for a

1188
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:51,599
community and so this is a way in the

1189
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:55,680
southern u.s that we have begun to

1190
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:58,880
put flamenco in the seat of activism if

1191
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,000
you will

1192
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:02,480
to try to get to some of these ideas

1193
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:03,280
about

1194
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:04,720
inclusion and

1195
00:49:09,839 --> 00:49:13,990
thank you

1196
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:16,790
hi uh tim livengood goddard space flight

1197
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:19,280
center and university of maryland and

1198
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:21,040
and i just want to disagree a little bit

1199
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:23,920
with larry's modesty a moment ago about

1200
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:28,079
following science because in my memory

1201
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:29,760
uh you're one of the first people who is

1202
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:32,559
taking seriously the idea of inhabited

1203
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:35,839
planets at red dwarf stars which is now

1204
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:37,200
something that's becoming really

1205
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:40,160
important to consider in astrobiology

1206
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:43,839
but about 15 years ago was crazy talk

1207
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:46,559
and clearly it would be silly to talk

1208
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:49,040
about something like that

1209
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:52,319
i had a paper i did about 10 years ago

1210
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:54,640
looking at earth from the outside as an

1211
00:50:00,309 --> 00:49:57,599
analog exoplanet in which i managed to

1212
00:50:02,309 --> 00:50:00,319
sneak in a professional reference to

1213
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:02,319
frank herbert for dune

1214
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:04,720
uh because of earth's spectrum when you

1215
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:06,400
look at it in the visible

1216
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:08,559
and uh only one of the reviewers caught

1217
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:11,599
it but he said i i will allow it

1218
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:14,079
but i have two that i'm working on now

1219
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:16,000
after a long delay that are related to

1220
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,800
that

1221
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,240
one of which

1222
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:20,160
i came up with a model for something i

1223
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:22,800
was seeing in my data on the moon and

1224
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:25,200
about a year after i concocted this i

1225
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,079
was reading a novella by paul anderson

1226
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,319
in one of the shared world collections

1227
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:32,559
actually the first one

1228
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:35,599
of the the men kazin wars

1229
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:38,800
shared world collections and god damn it

1230
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:41,920
his scenery setting anticipated me by 25

1231
00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:42,800
years

1232
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,559
so the only part of the paper i know for

1233
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:46,400
sure is going to be in there now is that

1234
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:48,640
the authors are happy the seed priority

1235
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,800
to the earlier work

1236
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:53,359
but the other one is i'm working on one

1237
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,079
now

1238
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:56,480
on observing the earth from its poles as

1239
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:59,359
a model exoplanet i would love to fit in

1240
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:01,839
a professional reference to you

1241
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:04,720
uh referencing the world jinx and i just

1242
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:06,559
want to know what would you recommend as

1243
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:09,280
the best source from your work to point

1244
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:11,599
to for that reference

1245
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:14,079
okay i've had some

1246
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:15,300
effect

1247
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,800
[Laughter]

1248
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:20,559
there's a phrase

1249
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:22,480
flash mob

1250
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:26,079
that generated from my flash crowd

1251
00:51:28,470 --> 00:51:27,280
which

1252
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:28,480
weirdly it's

1253
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:31,440
it was a story about teleportation

1254
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:33,200
and uh

1255
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:35,599
and there isn't any teleportation but it

1256
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:38,240
still works communication has gotten so

1257
00:51:42,870 --> 00:51:41,200
good that you could generate a mob

1258
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:42,880
just by having something interesting

1259
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:53,430
sorry

1260
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,270
but you just gotten active collaboration

1261
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,920
out of this conference larry

1262
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:08,079
the remark about collaboration

1263
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:11,119
collaboration is wonderful

1264
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:13,680
it uh it generates stories

1265
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:15,599
and and characters

1266
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:19,680
that would not emerge from a single mind

1267
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:21,040
and it's a lot

1268
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,510
all righty well we're going to take

1269
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:32,000
these last two questions and then if

1270
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:34,240
you'd like to stick around

1271
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:36,160
we will have a wonderful performance

1272
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:37,920
here by tim griffin

1273
00:52:42,030 --> 00:52:40,319
and our panelists will also be around if

1274
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:42,040
you have additional questions

1275
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:43,599
collaborations

1276
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:46,640
photos you name it we're here so thank

1277
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:48,960
you all for your time and we'll move

1278
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:55,910
hi lydia kivrak university of florida

1279
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:58,240
how do you feel about astrobiology in

1280
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,720
particular as an avenue for artistic

1281
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,400
expression

1282
00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:05,040
i feel that in particular astrobiology

1283
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,839
is such a almost inherently artistic

1284
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,400
subfield because it is such

1285
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:12,400
a human question the search for life

1286
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:15,119
beyond earth and art is also inherently

1287
00:53:22,710 --> 00:53:17,920
very uh human so i just wanted to hear a

1288
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:25,430
it is amazing how uh

1289
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:28,480
how how big a crew we can gather to

1290
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:31,599
discuss astrobiology given that the

1291
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:40,390
if if an alien if we discover alien life

1292
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,480
it will change everything

1293
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:45,119
all of the rules we've been laying down

1294
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:46,319
uh

1295
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:47,680
will turn out to be

1296
00:53:57,750 --> 00:53:56,309
i was just gonna say that you know um

1297
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:57,760
i think that

1298
00:54:01,270 --> 00:53:59,760
what's great about astrobiology and and

1299
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:01,280
science fiction and how i see these

1300
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:03,119
things coming together is it really is a

1301
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:05,760
way to just imagine another world

1302
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:08,160
and you know certainly all of my theater

1303
00:54:13,510 --> 00:54:10,240
art has been very much pretty much about

1304
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,520
this world and and so um

1305
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:15,520
you know getting to think about the

1306
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:18,319
possibility space of humanity is

1307
00:54:24,230 --> 00:54:21,680
certainly a refreshing uh aspect of of

1308
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:24,240
astrobiology and art

1309
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,400
yeah i would say astrobiology is

1310
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:29,280
incredibly creative and

1311
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:30,880
a lot of the you know part of that is

1312
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:32,079
it's so

1313
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:33,520
there's so many disciplines involved and

1314
00:54:35,829 --> 00:54:34,640
there's so many people from different

1315
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:35,839
backgrounds and different ways of

1316
00:54:39,430 --> 00:54:37,520
thinking and it takes a lot of

1317
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,440
creativity to work across those kind of

1318
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:41,520
disciplinary lines that have been you

1319
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:43,520
know built up over hundreds of years in

1320
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:46,160
our educational system and to kind of

1321
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,680
break those boundaries and communicate

1322
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:49,440
with each other and and

1323
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:50,160
and

1324
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:53,200
share those ideas um it's also you know

1325
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:54,480
when you're thinking about the big

1326
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:56,240
questions about you know the potential

1327
00:54:59,910 --> 00:54:57,839
for life on other planets or the origin

1328
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,920
of life on earth you know we're studying

1329
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,440
what we know we're studying earth as our

1330
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:03,680
only example and it takes you have to

1331
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:04,559
when you're trying to take those

1332
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,920
mechanisms that we're learning about on

1333
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:07,760
earth and extrapolate that to a world

1334
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,839
like mars or other worlds

1335
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:11,920
it requires creativity and it requires

1336
00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:13,839
imagination um

1337
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:15,119
and same thing with the origin of life

1338
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:16,559
you know we're trying to fill gaps in

1339
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:18,079
knowledge that that

1340
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:19,680
we have no

1341
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,640
kind of physical evidence to you know

1342
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:24,559
left up from what we do i guess i mean

1343
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:26,160
we've got the stuff that's evolved from

1344
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,920
the origin of life but like working back

1345
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:29,200
down that takes takes a ton of

1346
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:31,280
creativity

1347
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:32,000
yeah

1348
00:55:35,109 --> 00:55:34,240
uh tailgating on what aaron said about

1349
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:35,119
that

1350
00:55:38,789 --> 00:55:36,480
it

1351
00:55:40,109 --> 00:55:38,799
the arts are are such a great way to

1352
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,119
approach this you know

1353
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:42,640
multi-disciplinary field because again